No way…30 years?
Yes, 30 years.

What was your first job in the company?
I worked in housekeeping at the Radisson South here in Minneapolis delivering sheets and towels to the maids. I worked in housekeeping for a year, then the front desk for two years and then started traveling around the country opening new hotels.

Did you ever get involved with the food and beverage side of the business?
No, I always worked the rooms side. I was a front office manager, resident manager and then a general manager. I moved all over the country for seven years and then came to corporate where I have been for 20 years.

That is amazing. And now you are the CIO for the…
Hotel and cruise group.

Let’s talk about the hotels. What are the brands that you support?
We have the Regent brand, Radisson Hotels and Resorts, Country Inns and Suites, Park Inns and Park Plazas. We also have the Radisson Seven-Seas, our five-star cruise line.

We’ll get back to the cruise ships in a bit. What is the total number of properties?
We have about 775 properties in 55 to 60 countries around the world.

Tell me your responsibilities for all these properties.
As CIO I am responsible for anything that touches technology and the strategic plan for the technology for our hotels. This includes everything from desktop and office automation to our global distribution initiative, Internet initiatives and customer database initiatives.

You have to address technology across all your brands, which is a pretty diverse group from luxury properties like Regent to mid-market hotels. How do you approach this with their vast differences?
That’s a really good question. I think one of the hardest things we have to do in IT is develop that range of products that can cover the waterfront. If you think of it as sort of a menu approach, not all of the hotels use all of our services.
But in every service we create, we look at how it could be leveraged across that range of product. I think that the key question for anyone with IT responsibility is how do I leverage the business strategy with an extensible IT platform.

So that’s the issue, but how are you addressing it?
One of the things we do is we assemble numerous “utilities” that could be applicable or appropriate to a range of properties. And because we cannot mandate these packages or solutions, we need to make them strong enough so that people will want to buy the service or subscribe to it. That puts us in the mindset of being just like any IT service organization that’s developing services for customers. It keeps us on the creative edge.

With regard to Country Inns and Suites, you seem to be building fairly aggressively, correct?
Yes. And we work with numerous franchisee/owners that might own a portfolio of properties with us.

So, if they are building a new property of yours and you have a technology solution that you want them to buy into, do they totally accept what you are saying or do you have to sell it to them?
You constantly have to deliver the solution they are looking for. Understand that there is a base set of services that we do require as our core platform. For instance, you have to be on our data network, and you need to be using our reservation system, and our property management system, plus a few other core components. Then, once you install these core foundational platforms other services are offered as options, and they purchase as many options as they need to successfully operate their property.

Can you give us an example of the options?
One is GDS Rate Shopper—the ability for them to monitor the rates of the competition in their area. We are continually “sniffing” the rates of the competition via the GDS.

Is the GDS Rate Shopper something you created?
Yes. It’s one of the products we’ve created. There are other companies that have similar products, but we go down through the seamless connection via the GDS and monitor the rates of local competitors and their availability, which helps our revenue management strategies. That is an example of an optional product.

Are you satisfied with the buy rate from your customers/franchises with the options you offer?
Generally speaking, yes. We also have products like the one we call MyLink. MyLink allows the hotel to add as many people as they want into our e-mail network. This places the hotel within our communications network, our security structure and our e-mail directories. And, with these services in place, we are able to provide access to our KnowledgeNet, or KNet, system.

KnowledgeNet is one of your major platforms, I believe.
Yes it is. It is one of our four foundational platforms.

What are they?
First, is the reservation system, Curtis-C, which is our global reservation system for voice, GDS and Web; Second, is the Harmony Product Suite, basically the hotel’s property management system and a group of applications that link our hotels into our central systems. Third is the CustomerKare System, where we keep our customer information, all of our e-CRM capabilities and track all customer behavior/profiles, etc. The fourth platform is KnowledgeNet, which the hotels call KNet. KNet is our intranet, allowing the hotels to have access to information and reports and any “Web-ified” service that we offer through KNet.

How long has your intranet been up?
KNet as we currently think of it is really about four years old.

Please give us an example of how KNet is used by your franchises.
All of the information we use to manage or franchise our hotels is in KNet or moving there. So if you have questions like what’s the best way to price my hotel?, what is the current policy in housekeeping about x,y,z, what are our graphic standards and where do I get the current logos, or what’s the best offer from purchasing with our preferred suppliers? All those knowledge services are available through KNet.

What about CustomerKare? CRM is a real hot topic in the industry right now.
It certainly is.

Where are you in the whole CRM scheme of things?
I prefer to think of CRM as e-CRM because it’s all about what can we do electronically that allows us to communicate with our customers.

Good point.
I break e-CRM into two separate sets of work. Think of this as things you do “outside” of the hotel/business that are customer facing, and things we do internally, with systems, processes and people. Most people are only thinking of the things that happen “outside.”

Can you share some examples?
Some examples of customer facing initiatives are e-mail campaigns, electronic marketing, customer profiles and campaign management. We’ve actually run a new campaign to some set of customers almost daily. At any given moment we have 60 campaigns cooking electronically. On the internal dimension of CRM is the effort of aligning all of the internal systems so that you are capturing knowledge and information about customers all of the time. For e-CRM to work, there are two separate sets of work; one tends to be thought of and worked on by the marketing guys, the “external” stuff; the other tends to be worked on “internally” by the operations guys. But the two have to be coordinated for CRM to be effective. Typically, however, it’s the “outside” customer-facing pieces that get the attention.

Failed CRM initiatives have taught us that it is as much a process as a technology solution.
CRM is a mindset about how to market and build the business. Some people might think of it as something they can simply launch as a project. It’s not a project. It’s a mindset. It’s a way of working. It’s a total cultural change, and it requires integrated thinking, because if the inside piece isn’t working, the outside piece isn’t working either.

So, are all these pieces that allow you to implement your CRM strategies things that you created? Or did you go outside?
Some pieces and parts we have purchased, others we have created.

Do you feel you are reaping the benefits you hoped with a CRM strategy in place?
I think we are just in the infancy of reaping the benefits and we’ve been aggressively in this effort for more than three years. But if you understand the scope of this effort, three years is not a long time. There is no such thing as just plugging in a CRM system. It’s an entirely different way of working.

Very well said. Everybody and their brother is talking about CRM. People seem to struggle to understand what it really is. Many people just think…let me go to the store and buy a CRM solution, install it and then watch the results.
You’re correct Rich. It’s not like installing Excel.

(Laughing) Your point about being in the early infancy of CRM was great.
Furthermore, I believe the entire industry is in its infancy with regard to e-CRM. All you need to do is listen to people who are talking about this at tradeshows, and you realize that we are just in the beginning stages of what it means to build a relationship with a customer and use technology to assist in the strategy.

CRM is obviously a big tool to market. When using technology to market in general, let’s look at the bigger picture. If I asked you how you are using technology to market other than through CRM initiatives, how would you answer that?
Technology should provide customers with an easier way to do business with you. For example, we want our reservation process to be as easy as it is for you to go to Amazon and buy a book.

Interesting…keep going.
When you go to Amazon, your profile is remembered and they know how to bill you and where to send your book. They remember things that you have purchased before. They recommend things you might like. They don’t pester you with spam mail. They update you on the status of your purchase and your purchase can be accomplished with one click. This represents one dimension of what good CRM looks like.

That is a great analogy. Amazon really seems to have figured it out early.
Exactly, and they have spent hundreds of millions of dollars building out their ability.

What about for the hotel business?
I think our opportunity to get to know the customer and build a relationship with the customer is even greater than with a company that sells books because we have a potential for a larger relationship. We take care of them in a more personal way.

So what’s coming tomorrow?
If you are a customer, assuming that you’ve given me permission to talk to you, why don’t I send you electronic messages on your PDA? Let me send you a message that reads, “Hey Rich, because I notice you are in Minneapolis, maybe you want to stop by our Minneapolis restaurant today because we know you like prime rib and we have a prime rib special.”
And not to be offensive to you, I only deliver that message when you are in Minneapolis.
For our travel company, Carlson Wagonlit, they want to deliver you a personal communication when your flight is late, so they will push that message to your PDA or cell phone, assuming you have given us permission to have that relationship. This is the point when e-CRM tools become really interesting to the customer.

Let’s talk about the Web and marketing. There are so many options available, how does the hotel industry control their rates? Why is it that the same hotel, for the same two nights, has three different prices available on three different travel sites?
The Web is going to force the entire hotel industry to be much smarter about its pricing strategies than we ever had to be before. In the past the hotel industry probably has been the most “opportunistic,” (if that’s a nice word for it) with regard to price. Pricing integrity is an issue that the industry needs to wrestle with.

Talk about the wholesale rate sites like HRN. Are they here to stay?
For the short term you can feel good about putting your inventory out on Hotel Reservations Network (HRN) at super, deep discounts. And yes, you will pick up incremental bookings from HRN, but if we train our customers to shop for us in a wholesale model than we better also be willing to shut down our entire sales organization because you can’t afford both. You can’t afford a conventional sales organization and marketing process if you are going to migrate all of your pricing to a HRN wholesale model.

Explain how HRN works.
You deposit rooms with HRN at 30 percent discount and then they mark them up and sell them for you. They mark them up and they make profit on the margin.

Do they have to guarantee to sell the rooms?
No, they don’t have to guarantee it. All the risk is borne by the hotel.

Interesting.
If you give the room to HRN for $70, they might sell it for $100 and take a $30 fee rather than a conventional $3 or $4 fee that you paid for this service via other processes.

The travel industry was one of the first industries to truly embrace the Web. It might be a bit out of control right now, but you still need to be part of it, right?
Yes, you need to play in the dot-com world. The question is with which dot-com providers. If their business model is contentious with your own, you might have to choose not to play with some of them.

Let’s talk about your cruise line segment. How many ships do you have now?
We have six luxury ships, with another on the way.

Where are some of the places they go?
They go to Alaska, the Caribbean, Tahiti and the Mediterranean. Rich, you have got to try one of these ships.

(Laughing) Someday.
Have you ever been on a six-star, all suite, all balcony, luxury cruise?

No. I’ve done a few cruises. My first cruise was to Alaska and that was just the coolest. Is the cruise business a different beast compared to selling your hotels? Do you treat them differently?
In the very beginning we thought of the cruise business as floating hotels. We thought that if we could perform well in the hotel business, why can’t we do the same in the cruise business? But, it didn’t take very long to realize that the cruise business is probably, (from a logistics and systems perspective), 10 times more complex than the hotel industry. Then, add that to the complexity of selling to the five-star market. Our average ticket price runs about $7,000 to $10,000 so our clientele demands a very high level of service. They book and cancel with us three, four or five times before they actually sail. We manage their air transportation; their shuttles from the airport to the hotel if they have a pre-cruise hotel stay; and their transfers to the ship the next day. Then, we have the entire ship experience, which is all-inclusive. After the cruise they probably have a post-cruise hotel stay some place with more shuttles and transfers and we bring them to their flight home again. And we ensure that all of these events and experiences are five-star. It’s a very discriminating traveler at the top end of the market.
Then, factor in all the logistics of the cruise operation management. Buying fresh food in every port and provisioning for gourmet meals and non-stop five-star service throughout the entire itinerary.

It’s your own fault. You did not have to build luxury cruise ships.
Yes, but our cruise passengers tell us that they highly appreciate our cruises, because they return to us quite frequently.

Are there things on a ship that you can’t do because you are on the water compared to a hotel? Do you have demands for access to the Internet and improved telephone service among other things?
Sure. Customers want access to the Internet. They want to be able to manage their stock portfolio while they are cruising around through the Panama Canal and our ships certainly enable that. They also want to watch CNN while they are cruising and we enable that, too.

Cruise lines are notoriously known for booking most of their passengers via wholesalers and travel agencies. Is it the same thing with you?
We are exclusively focused on delivering our cruise offers via travel agent relationships.

Does this make you optimistic that the cruise business will get more attention, in light of current trends?
Yes! The cruise business is probably one of the most popular things that travel agents sell today. Many of them have migrated to this travel segment.

Then, this might be helping, correct?
Yes. Travel agents are paying a great deal of attention to cruise companies right now.

As a company, has the cruise line met your expectations as compared to the hotel side of your business?
There are so many moving parts and high, fixed costs to be in this business, so when the market is as volatile as it has been recently, it’s tough to hold profits and margins together. But we are still doing OK.

Let’s go back to property technology. You talked about how you present technology to your franchises. What about initiatives that happen that aren’t part of your package? For example, one of the more embarrassing issues was high-speed Internet access for the guestroom. The industry believed the customer wanted and needed it and then realized that nobody was going to pay for it. Did you get burned by this technology?
With high-speed we were fortunate in that we did not put our capital at risk for high-speed Internet. We approached it on a revenue-share basis, and so all we lost was time and effort. We didn’t lose cash.

What are you doing today?
We are putting in a modest amount of high-speed Internet in 50 or 60 guestrooms in each hotel. But, we are now paying to put those services in.

Which is the right way, and probably what should have been done in the beginning.
Probably. And we are generally trying to bake that cost into the room rate so there is not an extra charge on those rooms that have the service.

I think it is the way to do it. It’s no different than the old club room or executive floor.
True, but it’s an expensive amenity.

It’s for the 5 percent who want it.
It’s 3 percent to 5 percent at the most who are using this service.

Who are you using?
Guest-Tek and Golden Tree Communications (GTC).

The one place that high-speed access is needed and used is the meeting rooms. Are you doing this?
High speed is available in our meeting rooms. And that’s important especially if you are a conference hotel or convention hotel because they need high speed.

Is it wireless?
We do have some wireless available, but not many companies are asking for wireless. Most of them are still asking for wired services.

Really? That’s surprising.
At our last Annual Business Conference for our owners, we put in high-speed wireless and we made wireless available to the show floor for the vendors. Some of them were right there and loved it and others were saying, why would I use that. For us it’s much easier to set up wireless services than it is wired services.

Good point. Which is really why in older properties people are thinking that wireless is the way to go.
It’s a better, lower-cost alternative if the vendor knows how to use it or the customer depending which side of the fence you are on.

ASP is another hot topic. What are your feelings regarding this technology?
I think that the first thing that has to happen for ASP or “Web-ified” services to be generally accepted is that communications systems have to be faster and less expensive. Plus, they have to be 100 percent reliable.

Do you think we are there yet?
I believe that the ASP model is becoming possible today. But we all need to adopt this change incrementally. We need to walk before we run. We need to convert a few hotels at a time to this model to ensure that we understand all the technical challenges of the new model.

I can accept that. You referred earlier to purchasing, which you don’t hear a great deal about anymore. What do you, as a company, look at regarding purchasing and the Web? Is it something you are going to do or have done?
We are negotiating with three different companies right now to put together an e-purchasing platform. It’s another case where we want to make a modest investment in the solution. We do not want to build an e-purchasing system, but would rather join a tested purchasing network. I believe it’s another place where we can help hotels take out cost.

Do you think it is true that there is money to be saved?
Yes we do. The first place that savings will come from is when we can see electronically, a) what are the hotels buying, and b) this will allow us to negotiate in volume because we now have the knowledge to negotiate properly. Without all the volumes aggregated you simply can’t negotiate effectively. And assembling this data via any other type of process just doesn’t capture enough information fast enough to be effective.

That’s a good point because everybody equated e-procurement savings strictly to volume purchases. And, obviously, there could be savings there, but it’s really some of the add-ons that come with this technology that can really help you operate your business.
Exactly, plus hotels will also benefit when they can see all their orders, history and tracking of what they are buying and so on.

One of the other hot issues that I find intriguing is wireless. Your team has really captured a lot of press on the issue of wireless.
I was asked last week what I believe is going to be driving change for the next two to three years. I really believe that one of the things that is just on the horizon is wireless. And wireless for the end consumer will become very exciting when your cellular phone and your PDA become one device so that you can receive instant information from either the Internet or from some information service that is served up from a business system. When this convergence happens, I think it will be as large, exciting and stimulating to the consumer as the Internet was when it first gained general awareness in 1995.

That’s a pretty bold statement. Why so?
Because it’s one thing to have the power of the Internet at your fingertips while you are at your desk. It’s another thing to have it wherever you happen to be. For example, if you receive a call from one of your clients, and on your PDA display your are able to see the profile of that client and the notes from the last time you were chatting… how powerful is that?

Pretty powerful.
If you are in Minneapolis looking for a restaurant and you want to search your on-line yellow pages to find your favorite steak restaurant and see a map visually presented to you… how cool is that? All the excitement and all the good stuff that the Internet provides will become even more exciting as it becomes portable.

That reminds me of the comment John Paul Nichols at Cendant shared when I interviewed him two years ago. John Paul believes there will be no more billboards for hotels. Instead, you will be driving in your car and you will have a little monitor on the dashboard. It will know where you are geographically and will display all the hotels that are coming up in the next 10 to 20 miles. I thought that made sense.
Exactly, and soon these services will actually be available.

Let’s talk about where we are as an industry. Many “in the know” say we lag way behind other industries regarding technology. I am not sure this is so black and white. I believe there are things we do well and also technology issues where we seem to have missed the boat. Do you agree?
Is this a two-part question as to what are we doing well and where we probably lead other industries and what we are doing poorly?

Yes.
I think what we are doing well, and what we have historically done well is that we were one of the first industries to really grasp the concept of electronic distribution of product; the ability to sell. If you think of it, we were selling rooms electronically through the GDS 20 years ago. Albeit we were selling to a specific audience, the travel agent, but even that knowledge caused the hotel industry to be one of the best and largest applications of sale as the Internet started to emerge. All forms of travel, air, car or hotel, have been very large leaders in online purchases. Even today one of the largest selling items over the Internet is travel-related services.

I believe it is No. 1.
And this success has been possible because of all the foundation work that was put in place during the GDS era.

People might not realize that one of your claims to fame was your drive behind getting HEDNA started and moving forward.
Thank you, but this was an industry- wide team effort.

Can you explain what HEDNA is?
HEDNA is the Hotel Electronic Distribution Network Association, which like your publishing business, is 10 years old.

Nice plug. Thanks.
You’re welcome. When we started, we didn’t call HEDNA the GDS Association because there was a belief that electronic distribution was the bigger idea. That’s why we called it the Electronic Distribution Association because we were looking forward to electronic distribution, not limited to the GDS. And what HEDNA accomplished was the pulling together of three different parts of industry. At one table we assembled the GDSs, the hotel industry and the travel agent industry. And the three industries sat at the table together and literally rolled up their sleeves and worked out how to sell electronically in a more effective way. There were huge hurdles and obstacles in those days. It was terribly painful, difficult and tedious to sell through GDSs because all of those systems had different degrees of sophistication, and no consistency.

Wasn’t this also because GDSs were, by-design, created for the airlines?
Yes, and we tried to leverage it for the hotel industry. It was a very difficult thing. We literally worked through hundreds and hundreds of tedious little points to improve these systems. Teams of people focused around each of the GDSs with travel agents, hoteliers and the GDS teams to iron out the little nuances that were slowing us. The one goal was to drive more business through electronic systems. That one thing kept all of us focused on creating something that I think we are harvesting the value from today via the Internet.

You should be proud of your early involvement with HEDNA.
I am. But, I’m most proud of the people I was working with. That was an incredible group of people; Keith Cotton, Scott Pruner, Karen Polunous, Pat Going, Evelyn Sansarike… there were a handful of people there that locked arms and decided to change things forever. It was fun.

I always thought HEDNA was a true example of taking an available technology and improving it to make the industry better, not just one company. I hope ideas like this will come out of The CIO Summit Hospitality Upgrade is putting on in September.
I do as well. This Summit is a great opportunity for companies to work together and create new, meaningful industry solutions.

This is also our objective for The CIO Summit. We were talking earlier about things that as an industry we do well.
And things we don’t.

Right, and things we don’t.
I think that one area where the entire industry is way behind is in the use of its customer information to serve customers better. That’s why I said we are still in the infancy of what CRM is and where e-CRM could be. We have so much information about our customers and ways to care, provide and help them make their travel experience easier, but, as an industry, we don’t use it very well yet.

I agree. We will be getting better at a much quicker pace once people realize its importance. As a hotel operator with multiple brands from mid-market to super luxury, don’t your upscale hotels have a different need from CRM than your mid-market brands?
I think that what we need to do with our CRM knowledge is different in our different products. We are not trying to provide a Regent experience in a Country Inn. But we can take appropriate information and make the Country Inn and the Park experience better and we can take other pieces of that information and improve our Radisson and Regent experience. We need to apply the appropriate information to our appropriate brands.

Well said. There are many operators out there with a 125-room property with most of the business being drive-up business who do not believe they need to embrace an e-CRM strategy.
That would be a big mistake.

As an industry, I believe we have gotten better, but that mindset is still out there.
Should Amazon.com provide less service because you buy paperbacks and not hard cover? What sense would that make? But, they might provide you different service if you buy one book a week vs. one book a year, right?

Good analogy. Scott, there is a great deal of development going on that affects the guest experience while in the room. Do you think we are doing enough there or do we need to improve?
When I think about the hotel room, I think about it with two different hats on. One hat is as a person who understands technology and what it can do… what could I do in that guestroom that would be cool, fun and interesting from a technologist perspective. The other view is as a traveler, having stayed in rooms– way too many rooms– what would I want in that room.

Which hat do you wear more often?
At the end of the day, the thought in my mind that prevails is what do I want as a traveler. As a traveler I don’t want too much technology. I just don’t. I want to be able to connect my laptop and I don’t want to crawl under a desk to plug it in. I want to have power where I can sit down and work and I want good lighting. I don’t want 87 channels on my television. I’m not sitting in my room watching the top 10 movies of the year. What am I doing? I’m there because I’m on a trip and I have to get work done or I’m there on vacation with my family. And my family certainly isn’t going to sit in the hotel room with me and watch movies or play games on the television. When I need to send and receive a fax, I’m very comfortable doing that through the front desk, concierge service or business center. I don’t need a fax machine under my pillow.

I think that fax machines in the room might have been a viable thing in the past.
When we didn’t have other ways to communicate.

I’m somewhat with you on this regarding in-room technology. I tell people it’s e-mail at night and maybe watching television for an hour then going to bed.
The most technologically complicated thing I want to deal with in the room, other than my laptop, is a coffee maker.

(Laughing) It’s great to see that we have coffee in the room, hairdryers and things you don’t have to carry anymore.
And maybe to push the envelope, I do like having a safe in the room. Preferably, one that’s large enough to hold a laptop so that you don’t have to lug it around or wonder if it’s going to be secure in your room.

That’s an excellent point. You hear one story about a stolen laptop and you’re totally paranoid.
Safes in the room for your laptop are nice. If you put a safe in a room and it’s not big enough to handle a laptop, then as a hotelier you’ve made a mistake.

Good point. How about security issues in general? Do you think there is anything we need to be doing as an industry today that we are not doing?
I think the newest security obligation that we face as hoteliers is to never ever allow information to be sold. When we give away or sell confidential customer information, we’ve done ourselves, the industry and the customer a huge disservice. That, I think, is the new security concern in our industry. I feel very strongly about this. That information is entrusted to us to take care of and to use responsibly. We know way too much. We know what movie they watched, who they called and where they stayed—that is confidential information.

Do you store or archive this information?
Sensitive or confidential information, we flush and don’t save. We only keep the information that is useful for marketing and serving the customer again. So, intentionally, we flush all information that might be controversial. And we do not sell addresses, names or data about our customers.

I’m glad you stated that because one of the things, and I can relate to, I have a big technology audience with Hospitality Upgrade and everybody from day one has wanted to buy that list. I think it’s a moral issue with me, but I always thought people subscribed to the magazine not the opportunity to get spammed. I never have sold my list and it has been 10 years now. Again, I think it is more of a moral issue than anything else.
It is also tempting to sell e-mail addresses. But they are not for sale in our company and shouldn’t be for sale.

Good for you. Will you tell the tradeshow companies this?
(Smiling) We’ll work on it.

What is one of your on-going dilemmas for a person in your position?
I think the toughest thing we wrestle with on a daily basis is sifting out the best ideas and opportunities from the good ideas. In a business like ours there are hundreds of smart people who always come up with great ideas, but you can’t fund every idea. You have to sort through the good from the best. And that is difficult. Where do we want to invest a limited pool of resources to get the best business benefit? And so scrutinizing all those things against your strategy and against financial returns is pretty important.

That’s very well put. It is an issue today. You have more restraints today than we might have had a few years ago even with things getting better. But you also can’t stop doing things that need to be done with technology. This is a business.
Yes, you have to keep innovating, but you have to innovate with the very best ideas. And believe me, at the table today there are many smart people advocating lots of new opportunities. It’s difficult to sort through the myriad of new initiatives and say ‘no’ to some and ‘yes’ to others. It’s a difficult position to be in.

Scott, this has been great. Thank you for allowing me to come here and meet with you. Also, thank you for agreeing to attend The CIO Summit I am putting on in September. That is appreciated.
Rich, you do a great deal of good for the industry and I am happy to support your efforts.

Thanks.